asciilifeform: all you gotta do is to put it where ( http://somewhere/yourkey.txt, not https ) deedbot can see it, and then !!register thaturl .

danielpbarron: !!up slycordinator
deedbot: slycordinator voiced for 30 minutes.
slycordinator: Is anyone on here in contact with someone who runs loper-os.org? I got directed here from clicking the "contact" link there. On the site, people can't make comments on articles as the captcha software used is out of date
slycordinator: The message on the captcha display says "reCAPTCHA V1 IS SHUTDOWN. Direct site owners to g.co/repaptcha/upgrade"
ave1: slycordinator, you're looking for asciilifeform, he may be available in a couple of hours.
slycordinator: I thought it was him. I sent a PM earlier but wasn't sure if someone else was also involved.
slycordinator: Thanks
ave1: In the mean time you could introduce yourself. And figure out where you are here: http://btcbase.org/log.
ave1: Example of a successful introduction here: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-10#1860372.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-10 21:09 bvt: Hello, I am BT from the recent diana_coman's comments section
slycordinator: So, to introduce myself, I'm an American living in Korea teaching English and studying data science/machine learning in my free time
ave1: slycordinator, that's very interesting, most people here are in the American Continents and some of us are in Europe (I'm in the Netherlands).
ave1: If you like to have a more permanent identity here, please register with deedbot
ave1: !!help
deedbot: http://deedbot.org/help.html
ave1: If you do, I'll rate you and you can self voice.
ave1: you like -> you would like
slycordinator: Sounds good. I'll come by on occasion; think my wife is annoyed with how much time I spend on the computer already though lol
ave1: !!up slycordinator
deedbot: slycordinator voiced for 30 minutes.
ave1: You have a limited window in which to register yourself, deedbot gives you half an hour.
diana_coman: slycordinator, for how long have you been in Korea? (south?) ; you can also join #asciilifeform to talk to asciilifeform
diana_coman: and do register a key as otherwise your introduction will not have any person to be linked to
slycordinator: Yes, South Korea. I've been here since February although I lived here a few years ago. My wife is from here and missed her country
diana_coman: oh, not bad
slycordinator: !!register http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/aZ2ne/?raw=true
deedbot: 34D174A2C91396A0975B8301054605BDAB923812 registered as slycordinator.
diana_coman: well done
ave1: !!rate slycordinator 1 new blood, in South Korea
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/xbtNH/?raw=true
ave1: !!v 5265653AA3B3CED1529AC5071FFC4CD4D8EBDDE1A3687C87A0AFD5D3832A41F0
deedbot: ave1 rated slycordinator 1 << new blood, in South Korea
slycordinator: And thank you for the info on the alternative for contacting asciilifeform; I'm looking into making a gentoo box for a NAS out of an ARM board he wrote up about
diana_coman: !!v E84934B83B58BF4EE3FC021E48E8306960681A188CF9C88AA326E6E8B5DF6F8A
deedbot: diana_coman rated slycordinator 1 << new blood, living in South Korea

deedbot: 34D174A2C91396A0975B8301054605BDAB923812 registered as slycordinator.

erlehmann: i registered with deedbot. so what changes now?
phf: !!rate erlehmann 1 new blood
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/toyMw/?raw=true
erlehmann: phf have you ever played "digital - a love story"? apparently christine love is too young, so she pieced together how 1989 looked through textfiles.com - http://scoutshonour.com/digital/
phf: !!v 26D4E4DB84B37942E130111DD744601EE4E373EFB0AC035843397D2B715AE49A
deedbot: phf rated erlehmann 1 << new blood
phf: erlehmann: now you can /msg deedbot !!up and after decoding a challenge response send it back with /msg deedbot !!v <response> you'll be permanently upped while you're connected to services anyway
phf: *connected to irc

17:16 <stjohn_piano_2_a> list edgecase
17:16 -alis(alis@services.)- Returning maximum of 60 channel names matching '*edgecase*'
17:16 -alis(alis@services.)- #edgecase2 1 :edgecase.net
17:16 -alis(alis@services.)- End of output

17:16 <stjohn_piano_2_a> list deedbot
17:16 -alis(alis@services.)- Returning maximum of 60 channel names matching '*deedbot*'
17:16 -alis(alis@services.)- End of output

17:16 <stjohn_piano_2> list trinque
17:30 -alis(alis@services.)- Returning maximum of 60 channel names matching '*trinque*'
17:30 -alis(alis@services.)- #trilema-trinque 2
17:30 -alis(alis@services.)- End of output

17:31 [Users #trilema-trinque]
17:31 [ davout] [ jurov] [ stjohn_piano_2]

17:45 -!- Irssi: Starting query in Freenode with deedbot
17:45 <stjohn_piano_2> !!register http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/MJQpm/?raw=true
17:45 <deedbot> CF59A71DAC5722F695C3A730F6DC1E61599152AC registered as stjohn_piano_2.

17:53 <stjohn_piano_2> hello asciilifeform. hope all's well. would you be willing to !!up me, please?

asciilifeform: !!up stjohn_piano_2
deedbot: stjohn_piano_2 voiced for 30 minutes.
stjohn_piano_2: thanks asciilifeform for the !!up
asciilifeform: stjohn_piano_2: plox to say quickly who you are, and what biz you have here.
stjohn_piano_2: my name is stjohn piano. i run edgecase.net, which offers several services that may be of interest to people here.
stjohn_piano_2: i've read a lot of the logs
stjohn_piano_2: i have registered my communications public key with deedbot. my master public key (which is nearly 2 years old, timestamped in the Bitcoin blockchain) is http://edgecase.net/articles/public_key_identity_document_stjohn_piano
stjohn_piano_2: i made this current key my communications agent via this contract: http://edgecase.net/articles/contract_0
asciilifeform: !!key stjohn_piano_2
deedbot: http://wot.deedbot.org/CF59A71DAC5722F695C3A730F6DC1E61599152AC.asc
asciilifeform: !!rate stjohn_piano_2 1 temp voice / new blood
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/q34GD/?raw=true
stjohn_piano_2: thanks
asciilifeform: !!v FF7C9ADCF790A263E1B28677967A89BF6540306F3F59FB42BAC41C73894342B5
deedbot: asciilifeform rated stjohn_piano_2 1 << temp voice / new blood
asciilifeform: http://edgecase.net/articles/offline_installation_of_a_c_compiler_on_centos_69_minimal_on_kalkin << tried 'cuntoo' yet ?
stjohn_piano_2: no, but it's on my list.
stjohn_piano_2: hm.
asciilifeform: how about ave1's gnat ?
stjohn_piano_2: i had some prepared commands, but i'm having some trouble decrypting the otp.
stjohn_piano_2: asciilifeform: ditto.
asciilifeform: cat yer_otp.txt | gpg --decrypt ?
stjohn_piano_2: well, i'm using the sequences i developed in
stjohn_piano_2: http://edgecase.net/articles/gpg_1410_stateless_operations
asciilifeform: if you have the key you regged with, it'll go
stjohn_piano_2: i'll try that
asciilifeform: stjohn_piano_2: asciilifeform's 'stateless pgp' mechanism.
mp_en_viaje recently took girls at local argentine-style socialist hq here in romania. if the argentines were totally useless retards, they'd make the place an embassy. but of course they are totally useless retards.
stjohn_piano_2: ah ty
mp_en_viaje: anyway, 100% borderline sleeve priceless cuntlets and their typical cultural and civilisational environs.
mp_en_viaje: including printed matter about "real estate justice" in the typical argentine style, the works.
mp_en_viaje: they were very bothered by my cheesing & wineing the two sluts.
asciilifeform: lol wtf is 'real estate justice' ? errybody gets a phree palace ?
stjohn_piano_2: asciilifeform: when i run your command there, I get: "gpg: encrypted with RSA key, ID C8EFFF13, gpg: decryption failed: secret key not available"
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, lengthy interviews with morons living in social dwellings as if they were people, pretentious if ineptly constructed "studies", discussions of "the potentials and limits of legality -- how to construct the altcoin irl"
mp_en_viaje: and so on.
asciilifeform: stjohn_piano_2: plz compare output of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1913651 w/ your key
a111: Logged on 2019-05-16 16:55 asciilifeform: !!key stjohn_piano_2
mp_en_viaje: really, 100% tardstalk but in this guise of "every moron that should have been hanged is a point of interest and nothing else really matters"
stjohn_piano_2: asciilifeform: diff shows "Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)" as the only difference.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i can grasp the 'old world socialism', where http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-25#1904728 ; i dun really grasp ~these~, they dun even make surface sense to the uninitated
a111: Logged on 2019-03-25 16:40 asciilifeform: oblig : '[unicode deleted]!'(tm)(r)(pavlo tichina)(ukr)
mp_en_viaje: exactly what you'd expect of a "partido marxista-leninista-maoista", the theory of the squatting and "criticism of unbridled capitalism"
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, socialism never made sense.
mp_en_viaje: today;s socialism continues that tradition, in exactly the same way, through new forms.
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1913639 << it's really a sort of haiti.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-16 16:50 asciilifeform realizes that he hasn't the faintest clue re nz, never could even be arsed to see aerial map of it. pictures it as a sort of larger falklands.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: robber getting run over by train because he thought could hop on, 'makes sense' . terry davis getting run over cuz he thought train was an angel coming to take him to st peter's gate, doesn't rise even to the level, it requires being a terry davis to grasp
mp_en_viaje: but anyway, you can't crown yourself king in places that aren't kingdom. the only thing you can crown yourself, or be crowned for that matter, in new zealand is scapegoat. which isn't the sort of crowning anyone who's not actually a biological goat is interested in.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, which portion of socialism do you say made sense like the former rather than like the latter ?
mp_en_viaje: imo each and all forever and always "made sense" only like the latter. from late 1700s french nonsense to 1800 italian lulz, all through the johhny come latelyes in anglo and russoworld.
mp_en_viaje: stjohn_piano_2, http://edgecase.net/ << is this modelled visually after trilema ?
asciilifeform: y'know, the 1917 wave, where 'let's kill landlord and divide the lands', it at least obeyed conservation of mass. 'erryone deserves phree palace' is next level of wtf. who is to provide, martians ?
mp_en_viaje: cuz to me teh similarity's striking.
BingoBoingo: <mp_en_viaje> fwiw, we could note the dispute is strictly internal socialist dispute, the ultra-reds "terroristed" the moderate-blue group. << Guy claimed to be a "green" fwiw
stjohn_piano_2: asciilifeform: gpg --list-packets shows that the key ID is C8EFFF13 in the OTP file. The key ID of my public key is 5991 52AC. Is this expected? (the fingerprint shown by deedbot in the earlier line is correct, though).
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, and how does the "let's kill the only people who know wtf is going on" make sense ?
stjohn_piano_2: mp_en_viaje: yes, very much so.
asciilifeform: stjohn_piano_2: diff the pgpdump -i output of the two pubkeys.
stjohn_piano_2: i studied trilema's layout.
mp_en_viaje: interesting.
stjohn_piano_2: asciilifeform: will do.
mp_en_viaje: stjohn_piano_2, why not make a mp-wp tree patch then ?
mp_en_viaje: iirc people were looking for some more themes
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: consider diff b/w 'im'a go pirate on the high seas, take spanish gold' vs 'i'ma pray for gold to fall from sky', is the contemplated diff.
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=mp-wp&search= << item
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, i tell you i don't see it.
stjohn_piano_2: mp_en_viaje: i severely dislike PHP.
stjohn_piano_2: but i did consider it.
asciilifeform: stjohn_piano_2: what didja write yer www in ?
mp_en_viaje: you have to understand, you can't ~anachronize~ ; you gotta explain how it makes sense in time-bound context. otherwise yes forever it'll be the case "past makes sense, present does not"
stjohn_piano_2: asciilifeform: python
mp_en_viaje: so this is a python blog thing ?
stjohn_piano_2: sort of.
stjohn_piano_2: it's an html rendering / presentation of a series of text articles.
stjohn_piano_2: the original items can be downloaded via the "Download this article" link.
mp_en_viaje: http://edgecase.net/pages/edgecase_datafeed << http://edgecase.net/articles/contract_0 what is this nonsense tho ? what's "This article has been digitally signed by Edgecase Datafeed." even mean ?!
asciilifeform: loox like stjohn_piano_2 built/attempted to build a 'display these pgp-signed .txt with html sugar' mechanism ?
stjohn_piano_2: asciilifeform has it.
stjohn_piano_2: except that the signature is wrapped and embedded at the end of the text article.
mp_en_viaje: and do you also hate v along with php ?
mp_en_viaje: http://edgecase.net/tools/manage_ip_addresses << what;s this do ?
stjohn_piano_2 is learning pgpdump in the background, btw
stjohn_piano_2: mp_en_viaje: no, just haven't got to it yet.
asciilifeform: stjohn_piano_2: how long, approx, have you been eating the logs ?
stjohn_piano_2: manage_ip_addresses is a small interface for the paywall ip addresses. it's a thrown-together paywall, not fantastic, but functional.
stjohn_piano_2: asciilifeform: a long time.
stjohn_piano_2: but i've been recovering from severe rsi
mp_en_viaje: http://edgecase.net/articles/conversation_programmer_licences << what's the weird here ? a) wrt to a buncha people calling themselves x piano ; b) wrt to hand-publishing what's eminently a chatlog, as such ? why not use a logger and only publish selected snippets that need notes and such ?
asciilifeform: stjohn_piano_2: v is aug '15 -- present day item.
stjohn_piano_2: until recently, chat has been an unaffordable liability.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, apparently he implemented ye olde trilema credits thing..
asciilifeform: loox like
mp_en_viaje: wth is a rsi ?
stjohn_piano_2: asciilifeform: will eventually switch over to v, yes.
stjohn_piano_2: repetitive strain injury. too much typing, causes muscle buildup.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: hand mutilation from misconfigged kbd, typically
mp_en_viaje: http://edgecase.net/articles/checkpoint_8 << what;s this ?
stjohn_piano_2: http://edgecase.net/articles/an_overview_of_repetitive_strain_injury_rsi
mp_en_viaje: aok.
asciilifeform: oblig naggum re subj
a111: Logged on 2014-09-22 04:33 asciilifeform: switching caps lock and ctrl << 'Emacs actually comes with a builting Emacs Aptitude Test. Do you remap your keyboard or the Emacs keybindings before the chords and sequences it comes with by default have wreaked havoc with your hands? If you do not do anything to make Emacs more convenient for yourself, you may not have the prerequisite aptitude to use it productive.' (naggum, who else. http://www.xach.com/na
stjohn_piano_2: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1913731 << i've only recently set up IRC. http://edgecase.net/articles/setting_up_irc_irssi_znc_digital_ocean_freenode
a111: Logged on 2019-05-16 17:18 mp_en_viaje: http://edgecase.net/articles/conversation_programmer_licences << what's the weird here ? a) wrt to a buncha people calling themselves x piano ; b) wrt to hand-publishing what's eminently a chatlog, as such ? why not use a logger and only publish selected snippets that need notes and such ?
mp_en_viaje: http://edgecase.net/articles/gpg_1410_stateless_operations << this sounds a lot like what ben_vulpes was doing at some point iirc.
mp_en_viaje: stjohn_piano_2, but why the heck would you use digital ocean.
stjohn_piano_2: mp_en_viaje: first thing i bumped into that solved my problem.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: re gpg, seems like he reimplemented the mechanism in orig v
asciilifeform: where 'homedir' in /tmp etc
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, aha.
mp_en_viaje: stjohn_piano_2, ok, so what services would we be interested in ?
asciilifeform: 'Nicholas Piano: It needs to be something that proves someone's worth beyond a doubt. Imagine we treated programmer failure like the death of a patient in surgery. Think of a system tested so completely that every possible use case has been accounted for. Perhaps an air traffic control simulation ...'
asciilifeform: stjohn_piano_2: ever read ffa series ?
asciilifeform: !!up stjohn_piano_2
deedbot: stjohn_piano_2 voiced for 30 minutes.
stjohn_piano_2: thanks for voice.
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1913697 << yes, but there;s no such thin gas green. there's red-socialist as in http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1702376 and then the blue socialists as in clinton-dnc
a111: Logged on 2019-05-16 17:10 BingoBoingo: <mp_en_viaje> fwiw, we could note the dispute is strictly internal socialist dispute, the ultra-reds "terroristed" the moderate-blue group. << Guy claimed to be a "green" fwiw
a111: Logged on 2017-08-22 19:36 mircea_popescu: which, amusingly, makes the jesus pantsuits ACTUALLY MORE PROGRESSIVE than the new yorker crowd.
stjohn_piano_2: asciilifeform: yes, although i have not been able to understand it.
mp_en_viaje: that's a strange yes.
stjohn_piano_2: mp_en_viaje: http://edgecase.net/pages/edgecase_services
asciilifeform: stjohn_piano_2: this is actually 1st time anyone wrote in and said 'i tried but not understood'. plz feel free to leave comments re what did not understand.
stjohn_piano_2: i mean, i understand the idea.
stjohn_piano_2: i have not spent the time to go through the pieces manually.
asciilifeform: aa
mp_en_viaje: ok, but "consulting services" means nothing and secure publication's what qntra already exists for ? why would i use your thing ?
BingoBoingo: mp_en_viaje: In practice it seems so. Neither the reds nor the blues have a monopoly on the mud hut deindustrialists.
stjohn_piano_2: checkpoint articles are hashed and made into bitcoin addresses. some bitcoin is transferred to this address, much like deedbot.
stjohn_piano_2: i cannot alter previously published articles.
mp_en_viaje: and it's worth your time to do this by yourself rather than actually use deedbot because why ? tryina learn how shit works ?
asciilifeform: stjohn_piano_2: didja notice that output of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1913740 is a eggog ?
a111: Logged on 2019-05-16 17:20 mp_en_viaje: http://edgecase.net/articles/checkpoint_8 << what;s this ?
stjohn_piano_2: mp_en_viaje: yes, I've learned a lot. also distribution of risk.
mp_en_viaje: http://edgecase.net/articles/displaying_hex_bytes_for_manual_copying << is this exactly what i did in http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1913584 ?!
a111: Logged on 2019-05-16 15:54 mp_en_viaje: in other lulz, $ echo "[unicode deleted]" | xxd
stjohn_piano_2: you wrote an article once about parsimony vs efficiency, i think.
stjohn_piano_2: asciilifeform: i did not. thanks.
mp_en_viaje: right.
mp_en_viaje: so i take it the pissing into blockchain of article checksum is automated ? or you do it by hand on some level ?
stjohn_piano_2: hand-crafted transactions.
stjohn_piano_2: uploaded to one of the various broadcast places.
mp_en_viaje: umm. why the fuck would anyone. then whine about rsi ? how about not waste your time doing machine works.
mp_en_viaje is currently quite satisfied with the trilema/rss > irc > archive.is system of archival. for one thing, on very rare occasions i will retrofix a typo or something. for the other, if i actually wanted to deed each trilema article i would, but by automating that itnerface. seems overkill atm.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i'ma guess he's trying to 'airgap' but with no slave typists
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, what's the sense in airgapping published material ?
stjohn_piano_2: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1913777 << yes
a111: Logged on 2019-05-16 17:27 mp_en_viaje: http://edgecase.net/articles/displaying_hex_bytes_for_manual_copying << is this exactly what i did in http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1913584 ?!
asciilifeform: the tx i mean
stjohn_piano_2: asciilifeform: exactly
mp_en_viaje: stjohn_piano_2, so do you see something wrong with having an article about a script that does |xxd ?
mp_en_viaje: because if i had a criticism to present toyou re your (in many ways quite laudable) efforts -- it'd be this scratching around head with wrong hand approach to life.
stjohn_piano_2: mp_en_viaje: certainly. i'm not certain that i knew about xxd at the time.
mp_en_viaje: are you coming from academia or something ?
stjohn_piano_2: ah fair
stjohn_piano_2: no
mp_en_viaje: but you nevertheless understand what i mean ?
stjohn_piano_2: yes
mp_en_viaje: aite.
stjohn_piano_2: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1913785 << well, i had time to think. wanted to understand transactions, and by doing so achieve airgapped bitcoin storage.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-16 17:28 mp_en_viaje: umm. why the fuck would anyone. then whine about rsi ? how about not waste your time doing machine works.
mp_en_viaje: fair enough.
stjohn_piano_2: transactions for timestamping is a bonus.
mp_en_viaje: anyway, to belabour the point : there is immense value in having low barriers. part of why trilema is so great is all the time i put into making it very easy for myself to write on/for it. and my life in general is very finely tuned by this principle.
stjohn_piano_2: makes sense.
mp_en_viaje: if soemthing you should do can be accomplished in one hand motion, you'll do it a lot easier than if you have to first curtsy and then proceed. and a curtsy can be anything -- including having to remember the name of a script.
asciilifeform: ^ is how asciilifeform ended up with pedal board, bank of programmable keys, etc..
mp_en_viaje: all sorts of unexpected things improve productivity, and the thing with improved productivity is that it's a very hard exponential -- cutting yet another 1% dead weight produces massive gains because it lowers effort under pleasure threshold.
mp_en_viaje: one sure as fuck loves writing when the path from idea to published article is an hour or so.
stjohn_piano_2: asciilifeform: diffing the output of pgpdump -i [key] and pgpdump -i [deedbotkey] shows no difference.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, aha, and how linux ended up with the lulzy util names. and so on
mp_en_viaje: does he even have ratings ?
mp_en_viaje: !!key stjohn_piano_2
deedbot: http://wot.deedbot.org/CF59A71DAC5722F695C3A730F6DC1E61599152AC.asc
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1913653
a111: Logged on 2019-05-16 16:55 asciilifeform: !!rate stjohn_piano_2 1 temp voice / new blood
mp_en_viaje: a ok.
stjohn_piano_2: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1913808 << have learned this painfully, yes.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-16 17:34 mp_en_viaje: if soemthing you should do can be accomplished in one hand motion, you'll do it a lot easier than if you have to first curtsy and then proceed. and a curtsy can be anything -- including having to remember the name of a script.
asciilifeform: !!gettrust stjohn_piano_2
deedbot: L1: 1, L2: 0 by 0 connections.
mp_en_viaje: ...
asciilifeform: seems like that part worx
mp_en_viaje: a right right.
mp_en_viaje: stjohn_piano_2, so why "If Edgecase cannot answer your question, Edgecase will probably be able to suggest some potential avenues of exploration." ? wtf is an edgecase then
stjohn_piano_2: mp_en_viaje: the name of the company
mp_en_viaje: so is it you and a friend made a company and you call each other piano-something and the company is edgecase ?
stjohn_piano_2: mp_en_viaje: my name is actually StJohn Piano. my brother's name is Nicholas Piano. the company is just me.
mp_en_viaje: why can't i select "Plaintext renditions of books, documents, and PDF files" off http://edgecase.net/pages/edgecase_services ? you against javascript also ?
mp_en_viaje: wait, that is your actual name ?!
stjohn_piano_2: i have not implemented a javascript select thing yet.
stjohn_piano_2: mp_en_viaje: yes
stjohn_piano_2 is reading http://edgecase.net/articles/basic_gpg_commands to try to use GPG the normal way to decrypt the otp.
mp_en_viaje: nuts. it so happens it sounds exactly like what the "transparently clever & ironic" made-up name an xkcd-minded 2010s cleverist would come up with.
mp_en_viaje: so i guess i just assumed, lol. sat.
stjohn_piano_2: mp_en_viaje: i agree. no problem, i'm used to that reaction.
asciilifeform: stjohn_piano_2: at the risk of belabouring the obv., you gotta see to it that yer custom pgp wrapper actually has access to the priv that went with the pub you regged
stjohn_piano_2: asciilifeform: yes. i have imported the corresponding priv key to this instance of gpg.
mp_en_viaje: stjohn_piano_2, to continue that line, what'd http://bimbo.club/2019/05/philosophical-transactions-for-the-months-of-jan-febr-and-march-1716-part-v/ cost if edgecase did it ?
stjohn_piano_2: mp_en_viaje: i highly doubt that edgecase can compete with slave labour.
mp_en_viaje: may i be curious ?
stjohn_piano_2: hm.
mp_en_viaje: nicoleci, ey bimbo, how long did that take you ?
stjohn_piano_2: well, we'd choose some hourly rate agreeable to both of us. i'd use an OCR site and correct the result. eventually, i might invest time in my own ocr fork.
mp_en_viaje: you can't ocr that.
mp_en_viaje: i mean, it'll be more work to correct than to write.
stjohn_piano_2: ah. i'll look at the original.
asciilifeform: was gonna say. stjohn_piano_2 take a look at his input, it's the ultimate, possibly, torture test for ocrtron, 18th c. manuscript.
nicoleci: mp_en_viaje, that was a long one, five hours...
mp_en_viaje: ty nicoleci
stjohn_piano_2: ah. ouch.
asciilifeform: stjohn_piano_2: if you're a serious meat-ocr, asciilifeform has a tough cookie, http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909563 , would defo pay for quality hand-entry of it
a111: Logged on 2019-04-23 22:59 asciilifeform: here we go : 1801 schematics ; 1801 manual vol.1 1801 manual vol.2 .
stjohn_piano_2: well, i'd use human-powered ocr then (given residual rsi). i've hired transcribers before. i'd then correct the result myself.
asciilifeform: possibly even worse ^ , btw, than mp_en_viaje's item
BingoBoingo: human-powered ocr has a high error rate when the wrong bipeds are involved
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: noshit
stjohn_piano_2: asciilifeform: this computer doesn't have a djvu reader, but i have no doubt that it's painful.
asciilifeform: i dare say this is not the 1st line of work i'd picture a fella with broken hands going into..
mp_en_viaje: so look, and i hope you don't take this the wrong way (a hope mostly fed by your claim to have read the logs) : you're a guy with an evident humanities / non-technical background trying to get something going, start a company, all that stuff. nothing wrong with that. you are however currently beset by two prongs of problem. one is that in your quest to do something, you often do things that are getting in your own way -- there's no benefit for you f
mp_en_viaje: rom all the pomp of "datafeed article 103," etc. it just clunks up your thought process. i know you don' tthink so, familiarity breeds a feeling of safety etc. but it's absolutely never worth it to have more shit than you need.
BingoBoingo: And a lot of people advertising for "transcription" aren't the sort equipped to decode cultureal artifacts
stjohn_piano_2: BingoBoingo: I use relatives.
mp_en_viaje: the other prong is that you don't actually have anything you can compete in. slave labour or no slave labour, she does it in five hours and you don't.
mp_en_viaje: now -- the 2nd is probably more approachable.
asciilifeform: stjohn_piano_2: soviet-era typewritten + pencilled corrections, if yer curious
stjohn_piano_2: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1913862 << yes, reading logs has thickened skin substantially.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-16 17:48 mp_en_viaje: so look, and i hope you don't take this the wrong way (a hope mostly fed by your claim to have read the logs) : you're a guy with an evident humanities / non-technical background trying to get something going, start a company, all that stuff. nothing wrong with that. you are however currently beset by two prongs of problem. one is that in your quest to do something, you often do things that are getting in your own way -- there's no benefit for you f
mp_en_viaje: so, what are you realy good at ?
stjohn_piano_2: asciilifeform: ah interesting.
stjohn_piano_2: hm.
stjohn_piano_2: mp_en_viaje: thanks for feedback, by the way.
stjohn_piano_2: i have unfortunately worked mostly in small businesses, making me something of a "learn this thing quickly well enough to get it to do X function".
stjohn_piano_2: i guess i could say that i'm very good at reading a lot of material and picking out the bit that is necessary for a problem.
asciilifeform: stjohn_piano_2: this sorta thing is almost universal afflication of young folx. i can see why you choked on ffa tho, it has literally no 'parts that can be safely skipped'
asciilifeform: curable, is the good news
stjohn_piano_2: ha
stjohn_piano_2: yes.
asciilifeform: !!up stjohn_piano_2
deedbot: stjohn_piano_2 voiced for 30 minutes.
asciilifeform: stjohn_piano_2: got anywhere re the puzzler of why key noworky?
asciilifeform: you'll defo want to fix asap.
stjohn_piano_2: asciilifeform: no. still tracing back over the steps.
stjohn_piano_2: i know, hadn't expected this part to produce trouble.
asciilifeform: this sorta underscores mp_en_viaje's point -- if you have automation in the loop, it had better work and actually save time
asciilifeform: unreliable robotics is far worse than none at all
stjohn_piano_2: agreed.
mp_en_viaje: stjohn_piano_2, in a sense, the issue here you'll now have to transition into maturity.
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-05#1848033 and all that.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-05 16:52 mircea_popescu: well, there's that old "as i became a man i put the things of childhood aside". "something else", you know ? not a girl, no, but who knows what terror ?!
mp_en_viaje: certainly displays the patience required, to, eg, make a quite pretty mp-wp clone in python.
mp_en_viaje: did you yourself do that btw ?
stjohn_piano_2: puzzler: why the key ID in the otp message is C8EFFF13, while my key's fingerprint is 599152AC. importing the private key into gpg produces (in gpg --list-keys) the correct key ID 599152AC. diffing the key returned by deedbot with my public key shows no difference.
stjohn_piano_2: (correct key ID of the public key) *
asciilifeform: stjohn_piano_2: seems like your pgptron still doesn't have access to the corresponding priv ?
stjohn_piano_2: mp_en_viaje: re: maturity: good point.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, he prolly registered they main but gpg wants to use the sub (or vice-versa, i dun recall which this was)
stjohn_piano_2: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1913894 << really wanted more-or-less self-contained unchangeable publishing. thought i might as well make it look nice.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-16 17:58 mp_en_viaje: did you yourself do that btw ?
stjohn_piano_2: my pgptron is gpg 1.4.10, compiled from mp's original source in deedbot.
stjohn_piano_2: i've abandoned the stateless commands and am using the basic stuff.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: in the case of subkeyism, he oughta then see a diff b/w the dumps, as i understand
stjohn_piano_2: asciilifeform: i have imported the corresponding priv. will now export pub and confirm that it's the same as the one in deedbot.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, if you think about it, not only common, but forced because necessary. the human condition in postmodernism, as "lost on a raft atop sea of nonsense" kinda forces the tribe's expendable labour (ie, young males) into the "quickly search through large portions of sea"
stjohn_piano_2: asciilifeform: have exported pub-derived-from-priv and diffed it with pub-downloaded-from-deedbot. no difference other than "Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)".
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: hey, dun have to go far for this, e.g. asciilifeform earns bread these days by 'which 11 pages of microshit docs add up to the truth re $kernelknob' etc
stjohn_piano_2: so my working assumption is that the priv is in fact the right one.
mp_en_viaje: stjohn_piano_2, do the voicing in here
mp_en_viaje: say !!up
asciilifeform: stjohn_piano_2: also plz paste the eggog output from attempt
stjohn_piano_2: eggog:
stjohn_piano_2: $ gpg --decrypt encrypted_otp.asc
stjohn_piano_2: gpg: encrypted with RSA key, ID C8EFFF13
stjohn_piano_2: gpg: decryption failed: secret key not available
mp_en_viaje: do it here.
stjohn_piano_2: mp_en_viaje: ok. round 2 i.e. new OTP?
mp_en_viaje: just say !!up
stjohn_piano_2: !!up
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/tiMdL/?raw=true
stjohn_piano_2: !!up stjohn_piano_2
stjohn_piano_2: ah
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/yXnbk/?raw=true
mp_en_viaje: moterucker, just once.
stjohn_piano_2: sorry
stjohn_piano_2: should i use the first or second, or either?
mp_en_viaje: curl http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/yXnbk/?raw=true | gpg
mp_en_viaje: ^ put that in a term
stjohn_piano_2: ok
asciilifeform: Key ID - 0xEB915D5A625FF273 interestingly in both
asciilifeform: which aint any of the subs in his regged pub
stjohn_piano_2: mp_en_viaje: result:
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, seems inconceivable the nick was pre-registered ?!
stjohn_piano_2: gpg: encrypted with 4096-bit RSA key, ID 625FF273, created 2019-04-15 "stjohn_piano_2"
stjohn_piano_2: UP stjohn_piano_2
stjohn_piano_2: 224B5AF74B3FDF7674566BBBC2C7AF0E46D68F6586E03C255C2631FD34BE60DD
mp_en_viaje: stjohn_piano_2, say !!v 224B5AF74B3FDF7674566BBBC2C7AF0E46D68F6586E03C255C2631FD34BE60DD
stjohn_piano_2: !!v 224B5AF74B3FDF7674566BBBC2C7AF0E46D68F6586E03C255C2631FD34BE60DD
deedbot: You are now voiced in #trilema
stjohn_piano_2: huh
mp_en_viaje: you're such a dork...
asciilifeform: oh hey, decrypted
stjohn_piano_2: ah. first time -> opened link in browser, copied text into file. did not use curl.
stjohn_piano_2: possibly browser introduced some stuff.
mp_en_viaje: browser eh.
asciilifeform: aa there we go, ...273 was his primary (pgpdump for soemreason doesn't dump fphash of primary)
stjohn_piano_2: asciiliform, mp_en_viaje: thanks for the help
mp_en_viaje: yw.
mp_en_viaje: speaking of slave labour, naked girls in my room packing my shirts. "watch, like this. see ?"
asciilifeform: stjohn_piano_2: in the future, you'll want to do exactly same manipulation, but in privmsg w/ deedbot .
mp_en_viaje: well he'll be hard pressed to do it here if unvoiced, lol
asciilifeform: aha
stjohn_piano_2: asciilifeform: ah. thanks.
stjohn_piano_2: strange. doing the operation again with the original OTP still produces the error.
stjohn_piano_2: curl http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/q34GD/?raw=true | gpg produces:
stjohn_piano_2: gpg: encrypted with RSA key, ID C8EFFF13
stjohn_piano_2: gpg: decryption failed: secret key not available
mp_en_viaje: anyway, here's a consultancy i'm willing to hire you for : find some place that a) doesn't suck and b) offers a good price to advertise trilema on. large venues only ; none of the pompous bullshit. bulk adult traffic would do fine for instance, maybe talk to the juicyads dorks.
mp_en_viaje: that something within your scope ?
stjohn_piano_2: not so far, but i can certainly see if i can do it.
asciilifeform: Key ID - 0x889ACC4FC8EFFF13 is defo not any of his subs ~or~ the primary. trinque ^ prolly worth a look
mp_en_viaje: well, maybe i misread the substance of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1913875 ; afaik 80% of what "small business" means for the past ~decade is exaftly the above.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-16 17:51 stjohn_piano_2: i have unfortunately worked mostly in small businesses, making me something of a "learn this thing quickly well enough to get it to do X function".
stjohn_piano_2: ah
stjohn_piano_2: hm. let's do a quick run-through:
mp_en_viaje: ever since that graham scammer completely lost it, and started whining about some idiots who "handmade cereal boxes to sell their idea"
stjohn_piano_2: I've done: writing python scripts to sort large amounts of transcription data, running transcription projects, setting up raspberry-pi-powered cameras, figuring out what to do about gdpr, bookkeeping.
stjohn_piano_2: as a quick snapshot.
asciilifeform: soo mainly to do with automating ocr ?
mp_en_viaje: ah i see.
stjohn_piano_2: no, not as paid work.
stjohn_piano_2: that was just experimentation with edgecase.
mp_en_viaje: so basically you were involved in one small biz, and it had something or the other to do with digitization, or w/e in that vein.
asciilifeform: a. stjohn_piano_2 what have you done for pay ?
stjohn_piano_2: ah. actually two businesses. one was a furniture factory, one did speech rec system tuning.
stjohn_piano_2: furniture factory wanted to see if they could make and sell a cnc mini-mill.
stjohn_piano_2: speec rec company wanted transcription projects to test the speech systems.
asciilifeform: mini-mill << ~extremely~ saturated market btw.
stjohn_piano_2: asciilifeform: ^ those, for pay.
stjohn_piano_2: asciilifeform: so i discovered, yes.
mp_en_viaje chuckles thinking back on the dfays of http://trilema.com/2012/lets-have-fun-with-paul-graham/ ; remember back when internet "people" actually thought paul graham has shit to say on topics and things ?
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: even did have, circa 2008 or so
mp_en_viaje: stjohn_piano_2, ok, but what did you do for them ? accounting ?
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, more like in 90s, didn't they write a lisp-web thing ?
mp_en_viaje: tho i suspect other guy wrote, graham talked.
stjohn_piano_2: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1913906 << this is an excellent description
a111: Logged on 2019-05-16 18:04 mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, if you think about it, not only common, but forced because necessary. the human condition in postmodernism, as "lost on a raft atop sea of nonsense" kinda forces the tribe's expendable labour (ie, young males) into the "quickly search through large portions of sea"
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: did, but wasn't what he was known for, was still trade seekrit. was known for 2 schoolbooks on commonlisp.
asciilifeform has both on shelf, they're notbad
asciilifeform: mid-1990s
mp_en_viaje: his forray into business however, is sadly reminiscent of tucker max.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: pg openly admitted it was 'yahoo'-powered peripheral scam.
asciilifeform: ~then~ something snapped in his head, and came delusions of 'biznis genius'
mp_en_viaje: aha. but i meant since, made a "ycombinator" thing.
stjohn_piano_2: mp_en_viaje: furniture factory: i studied all the components i was given and tried to make them work together: so, camera, computer, motion controller, servomotors, wiring etc.
stjohn_piano_2: to make mini-mill thing for wood.
mp_en_viaje: apparently those are easy to get, in usgistan. then again... long standing tradition, who still recalls the "tribes" genius.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: right, it's what he did with the bag of moola. immediately politruks appeared to 'help' him 'see light' etc
mp_en_viaje: stjohn_piano_2, so mechanical engineer for factory and then software engineer for sound recording thing ?
mp_en_viaje: !#s seth godin
a111: 7 results for "seth godin", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=seth%20godin
mp_en_viaje: o look! logs remember.
stjohn_piano_2: speech rec company: learned to build / tune /test speech rec systems (nuance, grxml). ran transcription projects for the test data. wrote statistical sampler scripts for the output.
stjohn_piano_2: mp_en_viaje: yes, exactly
asciilifeform: stjohn_piano_2: i have cnc mill (for metal, not only wood, albeit slow) right here, made from scavenged materials + 1970s 'sherline'. it's a weekend's work. i.e. pretty hard to make profit selling'em, china nao ships complete kits.
stjohn_piano_2: although for speech rec, it was small company (my father), so I also did bookkeeping, reading about taxes, setting up computers, etc.
mp_en_viaje: "One of the most popular in the world 7,000 posts so far, more than a million readers." ; dude's still going, check him out. les keks.
mp_en_viaje: stjohn_piano_2, so what did you go to school for ?
stjohn_piano_2: asciilifeform: i agree. goal was to make "cnc mill for consumers" i.e. cheap.
mp_en_viaje: inb4 "painting"
stjohn_piano_2: mp_en_viaje: electronic engineering
asciilifeform: stjohn_piano_2: the rub is, 'konsoomer' dun particularly care to spray cutting oil and aluminum swarf all over himself
asciilifeform: hence popularity of '3d print' nonsense
stjohn_piano_2: asciilifeform: i learned early on that he who has the money gets to decide what to spend it on.
mp_en_viaje: stjohn_piano_2, aite. i guess you're fated to thicken the rows of techs then.
stjohn_piano_2: in this case, mini-mill for consumer.
asciilifeform: stjohn_piano_2: as you have also probably found already, it is quite difficult to manufacture ~anything~ 'cheap' in ameristan.
stjohn_piano_2: mp_en_viaje: makes sense. i don't think i'm a good choice for advertising work.
mp_en_viaje: Kinds of truth "Gravity's not just a good idea, it's the law." << check out the schmuck, "oh, here, nobody will notice pantsuitist pretense, let's talk about how gravity is the law. because hilary mcloser voted it!!!"
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: where was this
stjohn_piano_2: asciilifeform: i have indeed.
mp_en_viaje: https://seths.blog/2019/05/kinds-of-truth/ << this might be the dumbest piece of drivel i read today.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: aint that an infamous crap artist ? i fughet
mp_en_viaje: yeah. they're this cloud of idiots, this dude, graham, jobs, they all wear stupid clothes and aim to impress the gullible public by a certain style of fireworks.
mp_en_viaje: usually shaved head, rolled up sweater, "eternal life", etcetera.
mp_en_viaje: goes all the way back to tang dynasty.
asciilifeform: upstack, '...those who purchase programming time now have a reason to care about programmer quality much more than they used to... obviously this will take a while. it'll happen first wherever software systems are interfacing with bitcoin. or are under pressure from ransomware. wherever it hurts the most.'
a111: Logged on 2019-05-16 17:18 mp_en_viaje: http://edgecase.net/articles/conversation_programmer_licences << what's the weird here ? a) wrt to a buncha people calling themselves x piano ; b) wrt to hand-publishing what's eminently a chatlog, as such ? why not use a logger and only publish selected snippets that need notes and such ?
asciilifeform: stjohn_piano_2 ^ is true. but slow. e.g. mp_en_viaje and asciilifeform baked a trng in '16; one might imagine erry single serious btc user would've bought. but guess what.
asciilifeform: 'the gears of the gods turn slowly' etc
mp_en_viaje: every single serious user did buy
asciilifeform: could even be
asciilifeform: scratch surface of $subj, and find that the # of 'serious' folx is 100-1000x smaller than you could have dreamed.
stjohn_piano_2: asciilifeform: yes, unfortunately.
asciilifeform: the ultimate mindfuck, is when you find that you already know 100% of'em, by name..
stjohn_piano_2: interest from my friends and acquaintances in "store bitcoin on paper securely" using edgecase stuff has been: ~0.
asciilifeform: thing is, erryone already has paper
stjohn_piano_2: variant in this case is: use raspberry pi to generate offline transaction to confirm address validity.
asciilifeform: why generate tx to validate addr ? it's a pretty simple algo, with checksum
asciilifeform: dun even need computer, really
stjohn_piano_2: well, in my initial half-understanding of bitcoin, was nervous about moving bitcoin into offline address without knowing (for certain) that i could retrieve it.
asciilifeform: stjohn_piano_2: ftr 1 of the worst possible choices of iron for anyffin safety-critical
a111: Logged on 2015-03-07 00:01 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: and deliberately pseudo-open architecture (runs linux, sure, but with massive closed blobs required even to boot. and vendor regularly pays media mouthpieces to lie about it; also posts astroturfed comments)
stjohn_piano_2: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1914041 << well, i don't yet know how to do ecdsa, ripemd160, sha256 on paper.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-16 18:43 asciilifeform: dun even need computer, really
asciilifeform: ( popularly said 'it is cheap at least', but even this is disinfo, there are similar chinese boards costing half or less )
stjohn_piano_2: asciilifeform: all this is true. is it still a bad idea if you run the raspi offline forever?
asciilifeform: certainly terrible idea, if yer using e.g. the onboard rng.
stjohn_piano_2: nope
stjohn_piano_2: dice.
asciilifeform: i'd still rather use old 486 etc.
stjohn_piano_2: ah. when i started on quest, i had filed all computers under "untrustworthy".
stjohn_piano_2: having spent significant time in their guts
stjohn_piano_2: e.g. dig dig dig "ah, this Y is a wrapper around a half-melted X"
asciilifeform: generally speaking, ideal irons for safety-critical system are from 'pre-internet age', i.e. the kind you could write working emulator for in a weekend or 2
a111: Logged on 2019-04-23 22:59 asciilifeform: here we go : 1801 schematics ; 1801 manual vol.1 1801 manual vol.2 .
asciilifeform: see also mp_en_viaje's formulation .
stjohn_piano_2: asciilifeform: yes. the approach, for now, is fine.
asciilifeform: asciilifeform, for instance, has small stockpile of soviet-made cpu. not enuff for 'let's make wallet product', and certainly there aint enuff demand to even consider such thing, but for personal use.
stjohn_piano_2: i contemplated a future (my middle age?) in which all of the old stuff no longer works.
asciilifeform: stjohn_piano_2: that 'future' is now.
stjohn_piano_2: ah cool
stjohn_piano_2: yes, very nearly. but some 90s-era cpus still run, no?
asciilifeform: 70s, 80s, also work a+++
stjohn_piano_2: ah interesting. did not know that. had assumed old stuff would break in some way over time.
asciilifeform: issue tends to be with 2000s 'konsoomer' irons .
a111: Logged on 2019-05-12 03:29 asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: not only that period. i have strong suspicion that 'capacitor plague' never trooly ended, or will
stjohn_piano_2: aha.
asciilifeform: around 10y ago the expectation became 'will be thrown out in 2-3y' and manufactured accordingly.
stjohn_piano_2: well, when (roughly) can ~all the 70s, 80s stuff be expected to be dead, purely from entropy.
stjohn_piano_2: ?
asciilifeform: stjohn_piano_2: you will find interesting that it is possible to build computer to last 100+ yrs.
asciilifeform: and without even trying specifically.
stjohn_piano_2: asciilifeform: yes. i noticed. i have a 10yo macbook that functions still, while newer ones.... well, not so good.
asciilifeform: i have 1980s items that still not only work, but with original seals.
stjohn_piano_2: huh. now that is interesting.
asciilifeform: even hard disks.
stjohn_piano_2: so digging through junkyards is actually workable for my lifetime?
asciilifeform: depends where -- over here in east usa, junkyard nowadays contains 2-3 y.o. comps.
stjohn_piano_2: i'm in the uk, for my sins.
asciilifeform: stjohn_piano_2: consider a trip to e.g. romania .
a111: Logged on 2018-05-30 19:23 asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/timis17/timis_gypsies_1.jpg http://www.loper-os.org/pub/timis17/timis_gypsies_2.jpg http://www.loper-os.org/pub/timis17/timis_gypsies_3.jpg http://www.loper-os.org/pub/timis17/timis_gypsies_4.jpg http://www.loper-os.org/pub/timis17/timis_gypsies_5.jpg
stjohn_piano_2: aha
asciilifeform: take a large trunk or two.
stjohn_piano_2: question becomes: spend lots of time becoming expert in old tech, run homebrew hardware for running a wallet, but then: how to monetise? the expenditure in time alone is enormous.
asciilifeform: stjohn_piano_2: i'll be the very last to say 'how to monetize'. the subj is re the simple matter of with what to construct machine so that you can even ~have~ money, should you come up with from where to get.
stjohn_piano_2: the question in my mind is: does this strategy lose out to write-bitcoin-scripts-in-scripting-language to run offline on whatever cheap hardware china makes?
asciilifeform: the 20-30 serious btc people that apparently exist, already each constructed for himself an acceptable walletron, is my understanding.
stjohn_piano_2: asciilifeform: ah.
asciilifeform: the risk from using one built by another pair of hands, pretty much always makes it seem a losing proposition to purchase a walletron of any kind whatsoever. hence why the market for'em is fulla rubbish, built for chumps.
stjohn_piano_2: yeah.
asciilifeform: consider how leonid brezhnev insisted on driving own limo.
asciilifeform: there is famous joke from the time, where some official gets a ride in his car, and thinks 'who is that fella, who is so high and mighty that brezhnev himself is his driver !!'
asciilifeform: ( 'important' was... his driver. who was there simply in case he gets tired. )
stjohn_piano_2: ouch.
stjohn_piano_2: although, i am surprised. i had thought "driver" was one category of subordinate where you could trust that the subordinate would do the work carefully, for his own sake.
asciilifeform: 'trust but verify'
asciilifeform: sultan abdul hamid ii of course had guards. but also could, is said, hit a thimble from 50 metres with nagant, with either hand
asciilifeform: ( and iirc so can mp_en_viaje )
asciilifeform: point being, even if you have 100 pairs of hands, for the 1 that is actually attached to your shoulders there is not really a substitute.
stjohn_piano_2: ah.
stjohn_piano_2: yes. people try, but final responsibility can never be outsourced.
asciilifeform: observe, on fg www, the series of 'and now x tested' links. the buyers, did not simply 'believe' that unit worx, they took the time to verify.
stjohn_piano_2: people reeeeally try though. "machine learning" (rather than "statistical sampler with paremeter adjustment").
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje had a piece re the futility.
asciilifeform: 'As to the agent... his interests are very much not aligned with theirs. He wants to take as much for himself -- as well is his right, and as exactly is proper. They should have nothing, and he should have it all.' etc
stjohn_piano_2: re: testing: excellent. i will eventually buy one. need to get a job first.
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1914042 << bitcoin addresses have a checksum built in, last coupla chars.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-16 18:44 stjohn_piano_2: well, in my initial half-understanding of bitcoin, was nervous about moving bitcoin into offline address without knowing (for certain) that i could retrieve it.
stjohn_piano_2: asciilifeform: thanks. i have read it already though (and much of trilema).
stjohn_piano_2: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1914109 << yes. i didn't even trust the implementation of the hash function though. i started out with the assumption "it's all terrible" and the conclusion was "the only true test is to get a transaction from this address into the blockchain".
a111: Logged on 2019-05-16 19:14 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1914042 << bitcoin addresses have a checksum built in, last coupla chars.
mp_en_viaje: i guess so.
mp_en_viaje: you understand there's a (very theoretical) weaking of an address through reuse tho ?
stjohn_piano_2: yes
asciilifeform: stjohn_piano_2: there's a potential down-side tho, of this method -- addr that has never transacted is shielded by the hash (i.e. the pubkey is not available to third party yet) as well as the ecc mechanism; one that has transacted , is only shielded by the latter
mp_en_viaje: right.
stjohn_piano_2: yup
stjohn_piano_2: i wrote this up myself, to figure it out
stjohn_piano_2 digs for link
stjohn_piano_2: http://edgecase.net/articles/using_a_transaction_to_validate_a_bitcoin_address
stjohn_piano_2: section is called "Does the hash in a Bitcoin address provide any protection?" (if you search the page for that string, you'll get to it)
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1914097 << some people use slave labour.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-16 19:06 stjohn_piano_2: although, i am surprised. i had thought "driver" was one category of subordinate where you could trust that the subordinate would do the work carefully, for his own sake.
mp_en_viaje: hard to beat the loving slave in most personal applications.
stjohn_piano_2: to quote myself "To attack a hidden-key address, an adversary would need to discover weaknesses in: ECDSA, SHA256, RIPEMD-160. These weaknesses would also have to be compatible. To attack a known-key address, an adversary would only need to discover a weakness in ECDSA."
stjohn_piano_2: mp_en_viaje: yes.
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1914105 << this is actually a pretty decent name for it. SSPA.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-16 19:12 stjohn_piano_2: people reeeeally try though. "machine learning" (rather than "statistical sampler with paremeter adjustment").
mp_en_viaje: parameter*, but anyway.
stjohn_piano_2: i'm going to get off the screen for today.
stjohn_piano_2: asciilifeform, mp_en_viaje: thanks again for the patient help.
asciilifeform: stjohn_piano_2: laters.

stjohn_piano_2: just back to say: solved (non-)mystery of OTP
stjohn_piano_2: by mistake, i was attempting to decrypt the OTP sent to asciilifeform
stjohn_piano_2: in my notes, i had this sequence: 1) join forum, 2) deedbot will present OTP, 3) decrypt OTP, 4) use !!v OTP.
stjohn_piano_2: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1913654 << pattern-matched as "ah, here is OTP"
a111: Logged on 2019-05-16 16:55 deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/q34GD/?raw=true
diana_coman: heh, as I was reading the log, I was wondering if you were trying there the right OTP or someone else's
diana_coman: stjohn_piano_2: you need to ask; and it's a more general rule really
diana_coman: nobody pushing stuff at you
mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, https://i.ibb.co/9qMb2jS/nicole.png
stjohn_piano_2: diana_coman: yes. makes sense. annoying mistake on my part.
diana_coman: btw re http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1914012 -> I'd have thought you'd go straight for asciilifeform's TRNG schematics then, at the very least?
a111: Logged on 2019-05-16 18:34 stjohn_piano_2: mp_en_viaje: electronic engineering
stjohn_piano_2: ^ trinque. hope you see the above about OTP before doing any investigation.
diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: ty
stjohn_piano_2: diana_coman: i had a look.
diana_coman: stjohn_piano_2: re programming otherwise, there's eulora with a shit-ton of interesting stuff to do but there like ~anywhere, it's always about digging deeper rather than looking wider as it were
stjohn_piano_2: diana_coman: gtg for now. will reply at a later date.
diana_coman: laters

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1914153 << lol, after asciilifeform went for tea thought 'hrm, that fp looked familiar', sure enuff http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1913962 << >> asciilifeform's primary sub fp
a111: Logged on 2019-05-16 20:10 stjohn_piano_2: by mistake, i was attempting to decrypt the OTP sent to asciilifeform
a111: Logged on 2019-05-16 18:22 asciilifeform: Key ID - 0x889ACC4FC8EFFF13 is defo not any of his subs ~or~ the primary. trinque ^ prolly worth a look
asciilifeform: but loox like stjohn_piano_2 realized already.
asciilifeform: afaik 1st fella to press ~this~ particular 'anykey' ..
asciilifeform: 'doctor, you gave me these pills but nothing happens' 'didja take'em?' 'of course took, they're right here in my pocket'

stjohn_piano_2: turns out that for me fast real-time chat is still rather unaffordable at present. going forward, my replies will have significant latency.
stjohn_piano_2: i'll go through some dropped references from yesterday:
stjohn_piano_2: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1913698 << i also completely forgot that GPG encrypts to a subkey, not to the primary, so of course the key ID would be different.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-16 17:11 stjohn_piano_2: asciilifeform: gpg --list-packets shows that the key ID is C8EFFF13 in the OTP file. The key ID of my public key is 5991 52AC. Is this expected? (the fingerprint shown by deedbot in the earlier line is correct, though).
stjohn_piano_2: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1913740 << an error, which i will have to go and fix. checkpoint 8 has been held back from "published" status, because there is a little bitcoin in the address derived from the checkpoint.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-16 17:20 mp_en_viaje: http://edgecase.net/articles/checkpoint_8 << what;s this ?
stjohn_piano_2: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1913779 << this should have been "decentralisation vs parsimony". the article in question is http://trilema.com/2015/that-scary-thing/
a111: Logged on 2019-05-16 17:27 stjohn_piano_2: you wrote an article once about parsimony vs efficiency, i think.
stjohn_piano_2: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1913810 << this is very true.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-16 17:34 mp_en_viaje: all sorts of unexpected things improve productivity, and the thing with improved productivity is that it's a very hard exponential -- cutting yet another 1% dead weight produces massive gains because it lowers effort under pleasure threshold.
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-17#1914338 -> how/why is that? at any rate, arond here it's more important that you *do* answer (i.e. don't just let stuff get lost) rather than "real-time"
a111: Logged on 2019-05-17 12:04 stjohn_piano_2: turns out that for me fast real-time chat is still rather unaffordable at present. going forward, my replies will have significant latency.
stjohn_piano_2: yum install qpdfview
stjohn_piano_2: woops. wrong window.
stjohn_piano_2: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1913854 << i've had a look through these.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-16 17:46 asciilifeform: stjohn_piano_2: if you're a serious meat-ocr, asciilifeform has a tough cookie, http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909563 , would defo pay for quality hand-entry of it
stjohn_piano_2: asciilifeform: what would the desired result look like?
stjohn_piano_2: example: 1) numbered image files containing schematics 2) text files containing transcribed text 3) notes files containing the text on the schematics, with a reference to the corresponding image file.
stjohn_piano_2: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1913861 << i was not contemplating doing the bulk of the typing myself. my preferred approach would be to find a russian speaker, get them to make a GPG key, do the bulk work, and send it to me for correction.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-16 17:48 asciilifeform: i dare say this is not the 1st line of work i'd picture a fella with broken hands going into..
stjohn_piano_2: i studied some russian once upon a time, i could almost certainly correct it, with a little practice.
stjohn_piano_2: re: broken hands. yes, i cannot sell sheer volume of typing, only reputable attention/focus/correction.
stjohn_piano_2: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1913863 << makes sense.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-16 17:48 mp_en_viaje: rom all the pomp of "datafeed article 103," etc. it just clunks up your thought process. i know you don' tthink so, familiarity breeds a feeling of safety etc. but it's absolutely never worth it to have more shit than you need.
stjohn_piano_2: hm.
stjohn_piano_2: perhaps it's worth mentioning that, at every point when building edgecase, i asked myself "what should a reputable publishing system in the age of cryptography look like?".
stjohn_piano_2: this led to: multi-author, every article is signed (optionally by the author as well), articles are in a linear order (hence "103"), unalterability means that additional authors can trust that the owner can't sabotage their work / code.
stjohn_piano_2: i contemplated the possibility of 20-50 authors on edgecase. not people here now, who already have their own blogs, workers, etc, but new people, who perhaps don't want to run an entire blog, but would like to occasionally sign and publish their work.
stjohn_piano_2: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1913866 << yes.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-16 17:48 mp_en_viaje: the other prong is that you don't actually have anything you can compete in. slave labour or no slave labour, she does it in five hours and you don't.
stjohn_piano_2: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1913871 << have been pondering this question, and particularly the additional question "what answer would i like to be able to give in future?".
a111: Logged on 2019-05-16 17:49 mp_en_viaje: so, what are you realy good at ?
stjohn_piano_2: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1913902 << if anyone is interested, i also worked through verifying the deed: http://edgecase.net/articles/verifying_a_signed_deed_of_the_gpg_1410_source_code
a111: Logged on 2019-05-16 18:01 stjohn_piano_2: my pgptron is gpg 1.4.10, compiled from mp's original source in deedbot.
diana_coman: stjohn_piano_2: wot + causes vs purposes sound both like good (re)reads really.
stjohn_piano_2: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1914162 << i did not look at them in detail. i filed them under "investigate further when i buy one".
a111: Logged on 2019-05-16 20:12 diana_coman: btw re http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1914012 -> I'd have thought you'd go straight for asciilifeform's TRNG schematics then, at the very least?
stjohn_piano_2: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1914167 << i have no doubt that there are interesting problems in eulora, else you and mircea popescu would not spend so much time on it. unfortunately, i have to prioritise looking for paid work / finding a job.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-16 20:17 diana_coman: stjohn_piano_2: re programming otherwise, there's eulora with a shit-ton of interesting stuff to do but there like ~anywhere, it's always about digging deeper rather than looking wider as it were
stjohn_piano_2: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-16#1914325 << a distinction of sorts, i guess. "one body at a time, minefield is cleared".
a111: Logged on 2019-05-16 22:37 asciilifeform: afaik 1st fella to press ~this~ particular 'anykey' ..
stjohn_piano_2: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-17#1914348 << ah ok.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-17 12:29 diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-17#1914338 -> how/why is that? at any rate, arond here it's more important that you *do* answer (i.e. don't just let stuff get lost) rather than "real-time"
stjohn_piano_2: re how/why: due to rsi (repetitive strain injury), i currently run at 40-50% text production capacity, if i type slowly and steadily, with breaks. this is up from 0.1% capacity two years ago. trying to respond in real-time, as i did yesterday, is too high a rate for me to keep up.
stjohn_piano_2: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-17#1914372 << yes. i'll go do that.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-17 13:15 diana_coman: stjohn_piano_2: wot + causes vs purposes sound both like good (re)reads really.