I think my blog entry has had time enough to sink in for now.

Leave aside the VoIP aspect, tell me what i've missed.  Ask your questions, state your cases.

Is it too Simulation?  Is there such a thing?

Is the abstraction of the keyboard combined with the "reality" of the systems begging for Uncanny Valley weirdness?  Would you want to be able to draw a pistol and use it while still battling with your melee weapon?  Would that be unbalancing?

Who'd learn melee?  (bearing in mind that pistols must be manually reloaded every shot).

Would anyone?  Would you hire an expert or try to become one?

Thanks.

---

I have plundered the fen,
Through all secrets i spy
Old Madd ap Maddonwy
knew no more than I


In der Beschränkung zeigt sich erst der Meister - Goethe

i honestly think it's sound.

in theory it involves just enough "finesse" of timing your movements, and aiming, so that anyone can do it, but only some will master it.which follows exactly the type of advancement we're aiming for.

i think plenty of players will try to learn melee.
look at how many went for melee in SWG. that was a freakin' STAR WARS game, and people still wanted to be ninjas.
depending on how complicated and costly firearms are, lots of people (especially beginners) will opt for melee weapons.
i'm fairly certain that most players will own at least a dagger, especially ones who venture into less savory areas.

plus, the system you described really sounds fun.
i can imagine getting into a bar brawl just for kicks (no pun intended). aiming a left hook for my opponents head. then maybe going all Zidane on him and landing a headbutt to the chest.
it's WAY more interesting than what other MMOs have for combat, which usually boils down to spamming one or two buttons.
now of course, someone could spam buttons with this system. but in theory, they wouldn't be very successful.

as far as drawing and firing while engaged in melee combat. i don't see how that would be too unbalancing as (in my mind anyway) you would have to switch your "active" hand to the one holding the firearm to actually aim and fire it. meaning your "inactive" hand, according to what you wrote in the blog, would just be defending you with whatever weapon it was holding.
so you couldn't attack with both your sword and pistol simultaneously.
and don't forget that once your firearm is fired you couldn't very well re-load it in the thick of close-quarters combat.

i can see using similar systems (keyboard, mouse, left & right clicks, as well as mouse wheel) for other, non-combat, activities in Faith. maybe.

I think you succeeded  in developing a system within the confines of current technology and in the spirit of not forcing players to buy new components.

As Matt said, I can see this system being something that is difficult to master as a fighting technique should be. Any Joe Blow can pick up a sword and swing it, and hack away with it, but it takes skill to use it effectively. Anyone will be able to try swing a weapon around with this system, but it will take practice and more practice to be able to do it with consistent success.

I think the other half of this combat obstacle is mimicing pain and wounds within various extremeties and tolerences. Having precise hitboxes seems to be important and having some sort of repurcussion for various types of hits and the effectiveness of said hits is going to be key as well.

To go along with I believe Wysi who had mentioned Fencing being a chess match, there is a give and take in more refined combat that would require the hit boxes or outcomes of various weapon hits to actually mean something. Of course the more brutish fighting also needs to face consequences when certain conditions are met.

What happens if I stab your sword shoulder with my rapier? Does it make sense to be able to keep fighting as you normally would? Does your experience in recieiving these types of injuries play a part in how well you react/recover? Does your stamina? Does your bloodlust? Does your survival "juices"?

Despite how movies portray it, many melee fights come down to who can injure someone the fastest and most effectively since this puts the wounded at a severe disadvantage when like-skilled combatants fight.

I think if a consequential system is married to your inventive combat system, we will see a striking variance in skill and how combat masters are viewed. Players will reap the rewards of this as the world progresses from initial chaos to refined society (relatively speaking).

Hitboxing and the way we deal with it is going to be very important and extremely difficult from a coding point of view but that's not your problem, it's mine.  I agree that it has to be exact and also that different effects trigger from different causes - we knew this when we threw away the idea of a damage bar.

It may be possible (and remember, i don't know yet) to infer certain abilities from combat behaviour.  Bloodlust, as you mention, is one of them.  Adrenaline is another and that has some very special properties which will need careful thought.

Okay, challenge of the week artists - i keep trying this, it never works - give me a pair of duellists for Gassy to model.  And then i'll see about putting together a tech demo package so we can find out where the flaws are and how playable it is.

 

---

I have plundered the fen,
Through all secrets i spy
Old Madd ap Maddonwy
knew no more than I


In der Beschränkung zeigt sich erst der Meister - Goethe

hmm...

what's a "duellist"?

A guy who fights duels.

In this case, i want guys who look a bit like the Three Musketeers.

---

I have plundered the fen,
Through all secrets i spy
Old Madd ap Maddonwy
knew no more than I


In der Beschränkung zeigt sich erst der Meister - Goethe

Kohs:

hmm...

what's a "duellist"?

Assuming you're not doing a Ralph Wiggum impersonation(and to expand on Cael's definition, if there's any doubt), a duelist is someone who fights another person in a duel. No more than pure one on one combat.

Not to be confused with a person who fights with dual weapons, which could be called a dualist.

Now, as for whether or not I like the concept for melee combat, I say it sounds good, and even plausible.

aahh ok.
i wasn't sure if a "duellist" was some type of weapon i'd never heard of.

ok. i'll sketch some things up this week.

As challenging as it will be, I know that once you wrap your head around it, you will find a feasible way. I am anxious to see how this aspect turns out, as it has the potential to make or break this game.

There is also this neat little peripheral being shopped around that has soem particular applications to this fighting system:

http://novint.com/falcon.htm

Some of you may have seen it in various E3 reports. it looks very unique.

Arashi:

There is also this neat little peripheral being shopped around that has soem particular applications to this fighting system:

[to be filled in later when I remember the link]

There's the tilt-wheel that many modern mice have, i suppose.

---

I have plundered the fen,
Through all secrets i spy
Old Madd ap Maddonwy
knew no more than I


In der Beschränkung zeigt sich erst der Meister - Goethe

Linky enabled, finally.

wow. that Falcon thing really seems neat.
although it's hard to tell how it functions from those pictures.
it looks like you hold onto that door handle looking thing. which seems sort of counter-intuative to me.
but maybe it'll catch on. /shrug...

It may seem counter-intuitive, but as you know with these types of things you really have to hold it to know. (not that I have)

I was really interested in the simulation of weight and feedback and that kind of stuff. I could imagine the intricacies of the swordplay combat that Richard has been working on being even more formidable with the Falcon.

Imagine actually feeling the difference in balance and weight of a cutlass versus a dagger, or broadsword versus a claymore. Even subtle differences like a scimitar and a cutlass.

Then also imagine being able to feel the kickback from shooting your pistol.

Then the more intricate stuff, like feeling the heft of a sturdy wooden door being pushed open, or using a smithing hammer (and different ones for diferent metals). Actually feeling that you've picked up the silversmith hammer when you meant to grab the iron smithing one.

Maybe it's too much right now, but the prospect is too good not to mention and investigate.

late to the party, as usual.

question though, are you planning on modeling this after real fencing?  or the silly collegiate version?  because, my god, there's a HUGE difference.

---

I'm in this for the Experience, not the XP.